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Robert Jenrick has lost four stone but believes he has found a way to save the Conservative party.
He hopes the Conservatives will follow the example of their sister party in Canada and win back young voters by linking housing and immigration issues. Only by drastically limiting the number of immigrants can we hope to build enough housing for those already here, he argues.
Is this a statement of leadership? “My sole concern at this point is having these arguments and winning them.” When it is pointed out to him that the most significant part of this response is the word “at this point,” he laughs graciously.
The Conservative MP for Newark has become a pariah on some on the left following his decision to order the removal of a Mickey Mouse mural at a reception centre for migrant children, and he is also suspected by some in his own party as an opportunist.
He voted to remain in the EU but then supported Boris Johnson in the Conservative leadership race, who sacked him as housing secretary after a series of controversies. He was brought back into power by Rishi Sunak, but resigned as immigration secretary in December last year because he thought the Rwanda programme had not gone far enough.
talk I On the morning the election was announced, Mr Jenrick did not hesitate to criticise the policies Mr Sunak wants to make a watershed moment for the next six weeks.
“One of the things I’ve learned from analysing the problem of illegal immigration around the world is that half-measures don’t work,” he says.
“There is reason to believe that if hundreds of migrants are detained immediately upon arrival, quickly processed and sent to Rwanda, it will begin to have the deterrent effect we need.”
“The problem with the plan the Prime Minister has chosen to implement is that very few migrants are detained on arrival.
“The first group he is considering for Rwanda are people who have been living in the UK for many years, and secondly, they can make a myriad of personal demands which will delay and possibly frustrate their removal.”
“So I think this version of the Rwanda policy is highly unlikely to create the necessary deterrent effect.”
(To be fair, Jenrick also thinks Starmer’s plans for tougher border controls will only work if they are accompanied by a policy of deterrence.)
The 42-year-old former lawyer and auctioneer (and former director of Christie’s) is quiet but articulate, and while he may not have the folksy demeanor of Nigel Farage, he shares some of his views on both legal and illegal immigration.
Politicians don’t get it, he says, and whether it’s because they’re afraid of being labelled “racists and extremists” or because it doesn’t affect their daily lives, Westminster politicians consistently ignore the wishes of their constituents.
“I think a lot of politicians are avoiding the costs of legal migration because politicians are rarely at the back of the queue for social housing.”
“They are rarely people whose wages have been driven down by employers importing foreign workers rather than investing in their skills and career prospects. And they are rarely people living in communities on the frontline of communal tensions.”
He said his experience as Minister for Housing, Minister for Health and the Home Office had convinced him that immigration had a negative impact in his respective areas.
“Of the 1.1 million housing shortfall, 80 to 90 percent is due to legal migration,” he argues.
“We would have to build a new house every five minutes, day or night, 365 days a year, just to house the people who entered the country legally last year. That’s clearly not possible.”
He has called the small boat issue a “national security crisis” but does he think there is a danger that security agencies will be overwhelmed by the need to assess and, if necessary, monitor illegal immigrants?
“I think it’s a challenge for them. So many people who we barely know are coming to this country. A significant percentage of them are from countries that don’t share Western values.”
“And once they reach the UK, they often face long periods of detention in conditions that have historically contributed to their radicalisation.”
He wants Donald Trump to win the US presidential election (“he’s right on immigration”) and is a big fan of vice presidential nominee Greg Abbott, the Republican governor of Texas, who he says he has taken inspiration from for measures to make it harder to enter the country illegally.
Jenrick also believes the Conservative Party of Canada “provides a blueprint for our party.”
“They’ve made a national case for building more homes and helping more young people get onto the home-buying ladder that’s resonated with people of all ages and looks set to be on a path to returning to power whenever there’s an election.”
“They also made the connection between immigration and the housing crisis in a very rational and sensible way, which persuaded young people that they should be concerned about the levels of legal immigration in Canada.”
That is not a “for now” leadership pitch.